Shaking the Foundation: An Interview With Kris Dunn The HR Capitalist

I have been following the work of Kris Dunn for a couple of years. I read alot of his blogs on The HR Capitalist and Fistful of Talent. I watch his videos when I find them (this one on Raising Your HR Game is great. It was done with Tim Sackett, also someone to watch.) I read his presentations when I come across them. I recommend his blog to all my students and have a link to him on my blogsite (look down to the right). I am unabashedly a Kris Dunn fan. The reason? I think he is WHAT THE FUTURE OF HR NEEDS TO BE, only he is there today. (There are others in this arena and I will be trying to interview them as well. The first one I did was with Trish McFarlane.)
So without further ado here is the interview. It is worth reading every word.

MH: How did you "arrive" at HR? Fall in to it or seek it out? How and why?

KD: I fell into it. I was looking to relocate to the Southeast after working in market research consulting in St. Louis, and was working my limited network at the time. Some folks I had worked with in the past basically said, “Kris, we like you and want to hire you, but we don’t have anything in marketing. But, we think you’d be great for this HR Manager spot, and we don’t currently have anyone in mind for the job. Want to try that?”. And the rest, as they say, is history.

That just shows the power of the network and the fact that many jobs are closed without ever opening.

MH: You certainly incorporate social media into HR. How did you become a SM user? Any formal training or all by the seat of your pants?

KD: Seat of my pants. I think with any new tool you need a curiosity to learn, which I’ve always had. If you don’t have a curious nature, all the training in the world with any new tool isn’t going to matter, because you aren’t going to incorporate the tools into your life. I think that’s true with any new tool, and certainly with social media.

MH: Is there a "best" educational background for someone in HR?
KD: Something outside of HR. I’d say marketing, which is a skill that’s going to allow someone to think differently than many incumbents in the field of HR.

MH: Is there a "best" work background for someone in HR?
KD: Line management would be the best background – you’ve managed people and done well in that role. Marketing a close second.

MH: You come across as having a strategic point of view... how did you become "strategic" and how can others get there too?

KD: Read and think. I’ve read BusinessWeek and Fortune since I was 25. The more you read about general business strategy (Fortune) and execution (BusinessWeek), the more you think about the world outside of HR, which is probably required to even appear strategic. Also, go get an MBA at a real university. The school really doesn’t matter once you get down from Ivy League, what matters is that you’re involved in the subject matter in a case study method, which makes you think business first, HR second. I think you get strategic by thinking business first, HR fourth.

MH: You have expressed your opinion in the past that "status quo" HR is not going to make it in the future. What is your vision for the field of HR for the next 10 years? How does the field need to progress?
KD: It’s going to be a continued split between the talent managers (those that can recruit talent, then do cool stuff with that talent) and the administrators. Administrators will always be around, but they’ll have increasingly decreased significance as the ability to attract and leverage talent becomes the core skill set of the upscale HR Pro. (See Raising Your HR Game linked above.)

MH: Have any HR heros? Who in the field do you take as a role model.. if anyone?
KD: Can’t say that I have HR Heros, which is kind of sad. Some of the folks I’ve worked for in the past (Don Sykes, Marilyn Brooks, Lisa Bryant, Eric Freesmier) would certainly qualify from an HR perspective, but most of the heros I have are business and talent focused. I dig folks like Seth Godin and Michael Lewis for the big picture, and folks like Harry Joiner for the fact they’re brave enough to do things that others aren’t.

MH: You like sports both personally and as an HR blog topic. What lessons do you think all HR pros can learn from sports?
KD: I don’t write about sports because I like sports (although I do). I write about sports because it’s the most transparent industry related to all things talent. Whether it’s recruiting, succession, etc – you name the HR topic – you can find a transparent accounting of that topic in the sports world. It’s the best lens we have to talk about real examples in the talent industry.

Plus, I’d give it all up today if an NBA team called me up to work for 1/3 of what I make to be someone’s front office flunky. Believe that.

MH: Any words of wisdom for your fellow HR practioners?
KD: Do something from a project basis that feels like you might be risking your career in the next 6 months. You’ll feel alive, more passionate about what you do and this just in – you won’t really be risking your career – you’ll find that the people around you will be more supportive that you expected.


A little more information about Kris, taken from his bio.

Who am I? That’s an easy question. I’m the VP of People for DAXKO, a software company focused on serving the best membership-driven organizations in America. Prior to joining the team at DAXKO in 2009, I was a VP of HR for SourceMedical, a Regional VP of HR for Charter Communications, a HR Manager for BellSouth Mobility (subsequently known as Cingular and AT&T based on which round of consolidation you are referring to), and a Project Manager in the market research division of Aragon Consulting (gobbled up by IBM Global Services). With that track record in mind, I can now say what I thought I never would – I have over a decade in the HR biz.
 
A final word. You need to follow this man. He will be a major influencer in HR thought for decades to come. He is progressive, he is thoughtful, he is challenging, and he will shake your HR foundation if you let him. You will be the better person for it..

Five Great Reads in Human Resources Blogs This Week

I have done some reading today and I am passing on to you five blogs that I think are important reads. What a great guy I am. (Said blushing... well not really) This is not to say that there are not at least another 100 good blog posts out there to read, there are. But if you read these you will be a bit more educated on some important subjects.

1. First up is Ann Bares at Compensation Cafe. She wrote Managers: The Next Critical Shortage. If you did not have a compelling reason to work on development programs and incentive programs you will now.


2. Secondly is Kris Dunn at The HR Capitalist. He wrote Here's Why Companies That Have Used Card Check In The Past Are Silent These Days... This is an update on the Employee Free Choice Act (EFCA) and why companies that have used card check in the past are NOT singing its praises. Great info from someone who has been there.


3. Eva Rykr, of iOrgPsych writes about The Case for Analytics in HR. She says analytics is more than just measurement. And in this day and age of making a contribution to the organization (so both it and you survive) this is an essential understanding to have. A KEY HR SKILL.


4. Another KEY HR SKILL is giving presentations. Steve Tobak writes on How to Give a Killer Online Presentation. Well the advice works for in person presentations as well.


5. Lastly, but not the least, Jon Hyman tells a personal story that should be very instructive to people about NOT USING COPYRIGHTED MATERIAL in A short rant, and a lesson in employee appreciation. Jon has his taken and he did not take to it kindly, even though the "thief" thought they were doing him a favor. He even throws in a bit of HR wisdom.

Well there you have it. Great reading, great lessons. As always, keep reading HR Observations and pass it on to your friends and colleagues. And BTW, if you know of organizations that are looking for consulting work in human resources I have a great team put together. (Hey it is the first commercial I have ever done.)

Be a Bit Better at HR by the end of the day: Blog Posts You Should Read

Here are links to six blogs I think you should read. Aren't I nice for saving you the time of finding the good ones? LOL

1. Seth Godin, When Smart People Are Hard to Understand. Great advice on making yourself smarter when you don't understand something said. Clue: Acting like you know is not it!


2. Kris Dunn at the HR Capitalist, If you think HR owns turnover, you are already dead. Great story of what should be said to a manager who want HR to take ownership of the manager's problem.


3. Ann Bares at Compensation Cafe, The Excuses you may NOT use to defend gender pay disparities. With equitable compensation so prominent in the news these days this is an important tidbit of information.


4. Michael Moore at The Pennsylvania Labor and Employment Blog, Employment Law Implications of obesity and BMI after the ADA Amendments Act. Michael discusses some of the technical implications of being considered "overweight" and makes a prediction on whether or not obesity becomes a protected catagory or not. Wanna make a prediction on his prediction???


5. KJK, The Ohio Employer's Law Blog. 3 Lessons in handling workplace harassment. Harassment, especially sexual harassment, is still alive and well in the workplace. Here is a case and the lessons that can be learned from it.


6. Cathy Martin, Profitability Through Human Capital. Hey HR, please no more TABLE talk. If you have been in HR for any period of time you will get this one and agree. Time for action not talk.

Well that is enough for one Friday. There are about another 25 I could (and probably should) include on this list. But if you read these today you will be a better HR person at the end of the day.

Lessons for HR in the Geithner Confirmation Hearings

How many of you have paid attention to the lessons for HR in the Timothy Geithner confirmation hearings? Oops, I can hear you now "Who the heck is Timothy Geithner?" (A gold star to any who knows before they read the next sentence.) Timothy Geithner is Barak Obama's nominee to head the Treasury Department for the Obama administration. He has made headlines because he has made what his supporters call "honest mistakes." These "honest mistakes" are causing him and others some heartburn and everyone in HR should take a note because these are mistakes that would cause you some heartburn too.

What were his mistakes? He failed to pay self-employment taxes for period of time in which he was an independent contractor. Taxes to the tune of $34,000 plus. This HR lesson is to make sure you and anyone you have as a contractor understand the importance of properly paying taxes. If someone doesn't and they get hit with a big tax bill they may try to foist that reponsibility off on you the employer. If they can show that they were improperly classified as an IC then guess who gets to pay the bill, plus penalities? Here is a link to the IRS Independent Contractor Rules.

The second "honest mistake" he made was allowing an immigrant to work for him as a housekeeper without having the proper, up-to-date work permits. Geithner never completed and I-9, just wrote the document numbers down in a calendar and did not pay attention to the expiration dates. His housekeeper worked beyond the expiration date of her visa. So the lesson in this is to make sure you are aware of all the expiration dates of the visas of people you have working for you on a visa. It is simple to do, just put it in a calendar or a spreadsheet, if you don't have a HRIS that will track it.

Just wanted to show you that there are day-t0-day HR lessons for you in the news. Kris Dunn of The HR Capitalist often pulls his from the sports world. So read, pay attention, and go beyond just the words on the paper/screen.

BTW, here is a link to an article on Geithner if you are interested in reading more.

Now fess up! Who really knew who he was?

The photo credit is the Associated Press.

Overcoming Inertia: Get Your Lazy A** Moving!

Interia is defined as "...the tendency of a body at rest to remain at rest." To overcome intertia the body or object needs to be acted on by some outside force. (Your physics lesson for the day.) I went on vacation a couple of weeks ago and did no posting while gone. When I returned I tried to post again, but overcoming the inertia of being inert was difficult. So you have not seen much from me lately. (No one has been clamoring for my return, so maybe there is a message in that, hmmm...) Anyway, I was acted on by an outside force and it is getting me to post again. The outside force was the HR Bartender, aka, Sharlyn Lauby, who TAGGED ME. According to her blog the rules for tagging are the following:

• Link to the original tagger(s), and list these rules on my blog.
• Share 7 facts about myself in the post - some random, some weird.
• Tag 7 people at the end of my post by leaving their names and the links to their blogs.
• Let them know they’ve been tagged by leaving a comment on their blogs and/or Twitter.

7 Facts About Me

1. I once studied monkeys and chimpanzees. Worked on a project that was teaching a chimp a specialized language.
2. I abandoned that line of study 3 years into a Ph.D. Never looked back.
3. I have raced in several triathlons, despite my size. I race as a Clydesdale.
4. I am 57 and I have been married 37 years this December 18th. We were high school sweethearts.
5. I regret that I never served in the military, even though I came from a military family.
6. I have a wicked, sometimes ribald, sense of humor. (Scratch the sometimes, substitute often.)
7. I don't understand people who have a victim mentality.

Tags

Cathy Martin of Find Your Metrics That Matter

Michael Moore of Pennsylvania Labor and Employment

Dan MacCarthy of Great Leadership

Phil Gerbyshak of Slacker Manager

Valeria Maltoni of Conversation Agent

Ann Bares of Compensation Force

Kris Dunn of The HR Capitalist

So there you go. I am off the couch and posting again. Stay tuned.

Charisma and Success In HR: Is There a Connection?

I read in a Brian Tracy newsletter the following "There is a close association between personal charisma and success in life. Probably 85 percent of your success and happiness will come from your relationships and interactions with others. The more positively others respond to you, the easier it will be for you to get the things you want." Charisma is a powerful thing and we can think of many past leaders who have successfully used their ability to attract people by force of personality. Even today many attribute Barak Obama's success in getting the Democrat Party nomination on his charisma.

This got me to thinking of human resources and the effect of charisma. Is it a prerequisite for being successful in HR? Do you get promoted to the Vice Presidential level as a result of it or can you achieve that level without it? That may depend on your definition of success and your definition of charisma.

To me charisma is the ability to attract people to you. That attraction is made up of likability, trustworthiness, the ability to instill confidence and the perception of competence. Given that definition I think charisma is critical to success in HR. You must be approachable, you must be trustworthy, you must make people feel like you know what you are talking about and they must feel that you will accomplish what you say you will. Without that your knowledge of HR and you time in the field counts for little.

To make it to VP I think you need to add the ability to spur people to action and the abiltiy to clearly communicate your ideas and vision. This adds that very visible component of charisma.

Of course we all know people in HR positions, even VPs, who do not have this charisma. They may be great technicians, but they are not approachable and thus not charismatic. This is unfortunate for the profession. What is worse is the people in the job who are not only uncharismatic, but also not technically sound.

If you are not currently the charismatic leader you would like to be, the good news is you can change that. You can:

• Work on how you communicate (Writing classes)


• Work on how technically sound you are (PHR, SPHR)


• Work on being trustworthy (keep confidences)


• Work on your speaking ability (Toastmasters)


• Work on your self perception (See Brian Tracy, Earl Nightngale, Dale Carnegie, etc.)

Although I have never met him in person Kris Dunn of The HR Capitalist has charisma. VP level, superb written communication, attracts talented people and spurs them to action (Fist Full of Talent bloggers) and is very technically sound. So if you are looking for an example he is a good one to start with.

Want To Make A Change In HR? Speak Up!

A favorite author of mine, someone I consider an unofficial mentor, Harvey Mackay, wrote a weekly newsletter entitled "Find the courage to speak up and face challenges." He was discussing worklife in general and had a number of good quotes. But it got me to thinking about the application to the field of human resources.

If you get together a group of HR people quite often they sit around bitching and moaning about how bad things are in their job, their company or in their field (actually an activity common to groups of employees in general.) They gripe about management not listening to them, not having "their place at the table", not being proactive, laws being passed that are ridiculous or difficult to work with, etc. When asked why they are still there, or why management doesn't listen to them, or what they did about the law being passed what you hear is mostly excuses. Typically the gripers don't do or say anything about the situation.

Well if you find yourself in that group pay attention to Mackay's words, from a story he relates, "...That inspired him to speak up whenever something didn't work. He says it was the beginning of his realization that you have to make up your mind to speak up if you really want to change things." He further advises "Chances are, others share your concern. It takes courage to speak up—perhaps there's a fear of retaliation, concern about being labeled a complainer, or a reluctance to rock the boat. Stay calm, be logical and present your case in a clear and positive way. No whining! Waiting to see if things get better on their own really isn't a reasonable strategy."

If management doesn't listen to you, ask why. Want a place at the table? Ask what has to be done to get there. Don't like a law that is pending? Write your federal or state representative and express your informed, professional opinion. Not allowed to be proactive? Ignore it an do something about it. Courage!

In HR, when we deal with a sexual harassment situation we often ask the "victim" if they have said something to the harasser. We encourage people to do so, to stand up and say something. Yet quite often we do not stand up for ourselves. We adopt a victim mentality about HR not changing.

It is not hard to find examples of people exhibiting that courage. Find someone and use them as an example. One of my favorite bloggers, Kris Dunn of The HR Capitalist likes to rock the boat. Read him for a dose of courage or guidance on how to address something.

Poking the beast with a sharp stick to see if it is awake can be exhilarating every once in awhile! Give it a try. LOL

Smell the Coffee: A Couple of HR Observations

Must have been a tough day today, perhaps due to a 3-day weekend for some, because at least two blogs had a coffee theme. (Ah coffee.. that aromatic nectar of wakefulness).

Kris Dunn, The HR Capitalist, weighed in on the Starbucks story about a court decision requiring Starbucks to pay baristas $100 million in back tips and penalities, for letting shift supevisors share in the tips customers put in the tip jar. Apparently that is a very big "no-no" in California (and now will embolden other employees in other states to bring the same lawsuit.) Starbucks has announced they will appeal the judges "excessive" judgement. However, I am sure we will see some fundamental changes in the way compensation is handled around Starbucks, win or lose. Personally, I never used the tip jar often, unless I got exceptional service, and I mean exceptional. One could argue that employees want tips then they should be willing to take a tipped wage of $2.13 an hour as well. I doubt many would be willing to make that trade.

The other blog with a coffee theme was that of Slacker Manager, Phil Gerbyshak. Phil gives a Monday Morning Management tip, which is: "Instead of having coffee alone, every day this week take a member of your team to coffee with you and find out a little more about how each associate on your team feels things are going. Start with the most junior member and work your way to the most senior." Great idea! In fact, if there is a Starbucks nearby, walk them over and spend sometime getting to know them.

This method is also good for getting to fellow executives and a great way to expand your "network" within the company. If you don't want to ask them out, then bring coffee to them. The point is that making allies and friends within the organization is VERY important to an HR professional and that can be done most effectively by taking a little bit of social time. It does not always have to be business. You are in the business of dealing with humans so put that social skill to work. (And by the way, Starbucks does serve other things than coffee and you will not be automatically be labled a snob. Unless of course you order a venti, no-whip, three shot, double-dipped, pat your head three times latte. Personally, I drink the coffee.)

Smoking and Weight: The Effect on Employment

Two other blogs caught my eye this week. One dealt with economic impact of weight on earnings and the other the lifetime cost of a pack of cigarettes. The first was from Freakonomics and was titled The Wage Effect of Fat. This blog discussed a study on obesity and the effect on hourly earnings, with the conclusion being that people with lower levels of body fat, thus higher levels of fat free mass, had higher hourly earnings. This held true across sex and race. They concluded this might be related to productivity. I think this can be extended to several issues. I think people who are percieved as being fat have fewer job opportunities and job opportunities that have lower earnings potentials. I know many employers are hesitant to hire overweight people, especially those that are very overweight, for a number of reasons. These may include the effect they may have on insurance costs, the effect on productivity, and the perceptions customers may have of the employee and thus the company. Once they are hired I think weight may have an effect on productivity in the long-term, tied to the long-term effect of weight on health. It doesn't make any difference how productive you are in the office, if you are not there.

The second article came from Kris Dunn's The HR Capitalist blog and dealt with his discussion on smoking and his thoughts on tring to stop smoking at his company, Smoking Discrimination- Truth or Fiction for HR Departments? He referenced an article that discussed the lifetime cost of a pack of cigarettes, which for men is $222 per pack. So this gets into the discussion of what is the cost of a pack of cigarettes to the company? What is the cost of lost productivity due to smoke breaks, poor health, absenteeism. And what is the effect today on the earnings potential for the smoker. In some states, for example in my home state of Georgia, you can refuse to hire someone on the basis that they smoke. Not just at work, but smoke at all. Thus smokers are running into the same issues as someone obese. Fewer potential job opportunities and job opportunities that have less economic potential. Kris Dunn was pondering putting in a smoking cessation program at some point, but not now, and he pondered if he was doing anyone a favor by waiting.

My answer to that question is "NO". No favors done to the employee or to the company. If you are dealing with a similar issue in your company now might be a good time to think of instituting a wellness program. Tie it to the new year and your employees making the traditional resolutions to lose weight, stop smoking, exercise more, etc. Help them out. Resolve to be a healthier company for their benefit and for the benefit of the company.